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Thread: Aggressive Pap puppy

  1. #11
    Senior Member Avec Bravissimo's Avatar
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    Re: Aggressive Pap puppy

    Excellent post, Ivy!

  2. #12

    Re: Aggressive Pap puppy

    In my first post here, I brought up an issue or rather querrie about Piccasso my first male in regards to growling (or talking? ) that I have not experienced before with any other dog. I have never allowed any of my dogs to growl at me when it comes to toy hoarding or food and have always asserted my alpha position when it comes to this...either demanding the coveted item back from them with a "no", or making direct eye contact with a stern reprimand....even going as far as putting my face down ( or chin) over the top of their head and and removing the item while making stern demands. My last female Doberman was a real problem child for a while ( high instinct response= alpha/breeding bitch). While she never growled or showed aggression to humans, she was complete terror to my other dogs and attacked two at different times for different reasons. I finally took here aside one day and forced her to look me in the eye at point blank range by holding her muzzle and not allowing her to look away.....this exercise took almost 45 minutes of wrestling with her as she stubbornly would try and look every where but at me until she finally gave in with a huge sigh and relaxed...it was a turning point in our relationship and she relinquished a lot of her indifference to my commands of her especially when she started to get pushy with my other dogs.

    Now I have a 4.5lb (un neutered) male Pap who growls at everything that moves if he is so inclined and in very rare occasions, has become full blown aggressive with my other dog. The only saving grace here is that neither one of them has caused any real damage to each other (no blood) in one of these rare violent moments. They sound like a gang of Chipmunks and it can be almost comical to hear ( not very intimidating compared to large dogs) but I realize that this potentially a serious behavioral problem and it does concern me.

    Ivy, you mentioned Napoleonic syndrome in these dogs and I have wondered about this in my situation. Picasso is almost a "tea cup" small dog while his younger brother is much larger and stronger. I have reinforced Picasso's alpa position in all situations....feeding, toys, treats etc....and to this end.... Po has happily accepted his submissive role in most situatons especially with me.

    But I have tried everything I can think of including the method I mentioned above with Picasso about the growling and disrespectful behavior when it comes to me or Po and nothing seems to change especially the growling however...it appears this growling is more asserting or vocalizing his place out of feeling so small and out matched physically. He is a huge talker so I've come to try and see it from this place but.....he can get very intense sometimes! Biting is not an issue with me excet in one case where I was getting too rough with him while playing. Real biting rather than mouthing that is.

    Again...I will admit my own bad training in some of this simply because they both are so small and really pose no real threat to me or each other but....I do recognize what is going on and know that to some degree....I have allowed some bad behavior to slide because of this.

    I'm still trying to figure out where this growling noise is coming from with Picasso in light of the fact that his actions in most cases do not follow the sounds coming out of his mouth. The only thing that has worked to make the growling sounds go away is to become very soft and gentle and to whisper sweet nothings into his ear. It sounds almost pathetic but I also now wonder how much I have now reinforced this behavior with my overt loving and caressing.

    All of this is so different and at times, bizarre behavior compared to the large dogs I'm so used to and I would never allowed it with them. In reality, this is not an issue at all but.....I have certainly been wrong before and do not want to create a situation that will get out of control in the future.

    FYI: both my boys were under a No-neuter contract for their first year but have now since been released from it by the breeder

  3. #13
    Site Owner Ivvy's Avatar
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    Re: Aggressive Pap puppy

    Papillons are talkers (and back talkers) when you're correcting them I've noticed too. It sounds like you have a strong willed little guy. You can make your alpha position known to him but as for your other dogs if they arn't going to set strong boundaries they are going to end up submitting to him when he is older.

    My first papillon was a female that we got at 5 months old. She was dog aggressive from the start and at the time we lived with my boyfriends parents who also had a Papillon and 2 other dogs. My new girl would attack any dog that came near me when I had food and would even go after bigger dogs. She did mellow out a lot as she got older but her alpha position with dogs never diminished. She became more predictable and no longer attacked her housemates (after a few months). It sounds like your guy is similar to my girl. I would say he will probably mellow out with age and neutering. If he is being extremely strong willed and refusing to listen to you, I hate to say it as i know it's very controversial, but e-collars (shock collars) can sometimes help when used correctly. You only have to use them for a short while and usually the problem you are correcting gets solved by it.

    I would say let him and his fellow dog housemates establish their roles and you continue to enforce your role. He is still young so he won't be able to understand or remember your corrections until he is older. I can say it will get better since I had a similar problem with my female.

    And thanks Kelly love <3
    Papvilion Papillon Forum

  4. #14

    Re: Aggressive Pap puppy

    Please correct now. My pap didnt do this as a puppy. Unfortunately we traveled and due to health issues and not being where dog parks were. She became very anti social with other dogs. We just got a yorky puppy 5 months old. After the second day she started playing but rough. So have to even result in putting her on a leash where she will leave him alone.
    Other dogs is a different story. She has has been aggressive with me and i turn her on her side with a little presure until she calms down. She does not like me to make her do anything she does not want to. I will tell her no and she wont bite but does complain. I cant even take her to the dog park with out her going crazy with other dogs. Still working on all this so break it now .
    Last edited by Graneet; 08-12-2014 at 12:38 AM. Reason: Spelling

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